The politics of Asbestos bans can be complex, as we're now seeing in Indonesia... In this episode of the Disaster Podcast, we review news reports about the challenges to Indonesia's Asbestos ban and discuss what this means and why it's important! Original Story: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-08-06/lawsuit-against-activists-raising-concerns-of-asbestos-indonesia/105615308 With franchise opportunities available across most of the country, Disaster Blaster is YOUR chance to take control of your future and be part of a thriving restoration brand. Contact our Franchise Team at 302-242-1042 or Franchising@disasterblaster.com to start your future TODAY! Disaster Podcast is brought to you by Disaster Blaster! https://disasterblaster.com/ With franchise opportunities available across most of the country, Disaster Blaster is YOUR chance to take control of your future and be part of a thriving restoration brand. Contact our Franchise Team at 302-242-1042 or Franchising@disasterblaster.com to start your future TODAY! Franchise Opportunities: https://disasterblasterfranchise.com home,house,Asbestos,FDA,United States,USA,Law,Asbestosis,Mesothelioma,Disaster Blaster,Disaster Podcast,podcast,Indonesia,Australia,Asbestos Ban,Safety,Asbestos Safety,Chrysotile,Russia,China

- Recent developments in Indonesia are highlighting the politics of safety when it comes to banning Asbestos. In this episode of the Disaster Podcast, we are going to talk about these current developments and what they mean. Stay tuned. Australia banned Asbestos back in 2003, including the use, manufacture, import, transport, storage, sale, and reuse of all forms of Asbestos and Asbestos containing products. In fact, to this day, Australia's ban on Asbestos is one of the most comprehensive bans in the world, offering few exceptions. Australia actually went a step further though, and is now spearheading education initiatives of the dangers of Asbestos, helping with the implementation of safety protocols, and assisting with the development of effective bans on Asbestos use and manufacture around the world. Despite the fact that the dangers of Asbestos are well recognized and documented, this initiative has not always been easy; running into logistical and political challenges. This is a great story from ABC News Australia that discusses some of these difficulties that Australia and Indonesia have faced, and there are a few things that I want to review and discuss. As always, there will be a link to the full story in the description, and I encourage everyone to read the story in its entirety. But first I want to briefly talk about what Asbestos is and why it's so dangerous. Asbestos is a naturally occurring mineral that is actually mined from the ground. It is then crushed into a powder or granular pebble and can be added to a variety of products from building materials like pipe insulation, siding, and floor tile to household products like oven mitts. Fortunately, we don't see a lot of products on the market today in the United States or Australia that still contain Asbestos, but a lot of these products are still out there, particularly when it comes to building materials in homes. The reason Asbestos is such a concern is because it contains long, thin, hook-like fibers that can get into the air when disturbed or damaged, and when breathed into the lungs, your lungs aren't able to expel them, potentially resulting in serious and generally incurable health conditions like Asbestosis, Mesothelioma, and Lung Cancer. As a result, many attempts have been made to reduce these risks in countries around the world. Unfortunately, Asbestos is still mined in countries like Russia, China, Kazakhstan, and Brazil, where it remains important to their economies, making bans, and in some cases even education programs, difficult. So let's take a look at this story here. Australia banned Asbestos 20 years ago, but now a new battle is raging next door. So that'll be in Indonesia. So we'll take a look at this here. I'll add some commentary and, and answer some questions I'm sure you'll have as we go through as well. So more than 20 years after Australia banned all forms of Asbestos, the deadly legacy still lingers. It is in the walls and roofs of homes, schools, and countless other buildings, as well as the lungs of thousands of Australians who still die every year from exposure they never saw coming. It took a grueling decades long campaign by unions, victims, and health experts to force governments to act; against fierce resistance from key industry players. You'll see as we read through this that that resistance still exists and these countries are still working very hard to push back against that. But now, as Australia leads a global campaign to raise awareness, especially in Southeast Asia where Asbestos is still rampant, a new legal battle has unfolded. It started last March when Indonesia Supreme Court ordered mandatory labeling on Asbestos products that highlight the risks of exposure, which sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to label products that contain Asbestos. You would expect that from a country if you're from the United States or Europe or or Australia, but in a lot of countries, that really is not the norm. So these countries and the citizens there just don't know what might be in some of these products. It came after a court action from health and workers' rights groups, but the Asbestos industry refused to accept the decision and is suing the groups for lost revenue. The case is being seen as a chilling attempt to silence those fighting to ban Asbestos and protect public health in Indonesia. Now, this is the part where I think people have the most questions. The industry lobby says White Asbestos is harmless. Beyond the fight to end mandatory labeling of Asbestos is a powerful international industry lobby. It represents the world's biggest Asbestos producers in countries such as Russia, China, and Kazakhstan. The Fiber Cement Manufacturers Association argues that white Asbestos known as Chrysotile is a harmless chemical. This is a statement that they actually made in their court arguments here... "Chrysotile fibers or white Asbestos will be quickly broken down in the respiratory system because they dissolve in acidic solutions in the respiratory tract." Nothing from the medical or scientific community supports that statement at all. In fact, Asbestos naturally is resistant to acids and things like that. And research has shown that Asbestos stays in the body and is unable to be removed or broken down. They continued: "Chrysotile has been shown to be rapidly eliminated from the lungs" that is factually untrue and inaccurate. In fact, the primary hazard with Asbestos is because it cannot be expelled from the lungs. They further argue that white Asbestos does not require labeling because it is not listed under the United Nations Rotterdam Convention, an international treaty that regulates the import and export of hazardous chemicals. That is true, however they're not really accurately representing what transpired there or why that is. The Rotterdam Convention does list a variety of other types of Asbestos. So asbestos does contain several different mineral families. However, Chrysotile was not included in the list primarily for political reasons. So the Rotterdam Convention is structured that they need a consensus to make any changes or to add anything to the list. So any country as part of the convention that appeals or doesn't agree, can block the adding of any chemical or hazardous material to that list. A number of countries rely very heavily on the sale of the Asbestos that they continue to mine, so economically, it's valuable to keep it off the list. So because it's so easy for them to keep it off the list, it's really no wonder why Chrysotile, which makes up 90% of the Asbestos that is mined and sold worldwide, would be kept off the list. There have been repeated recommendations to add Chrysotile to the list as well, but none of them have been adopted. They're demanding damages of $ 520,000 US dollars a month and penalty charges of more than $ 300 US dollars a day for any failure to pay. So very much it's an attempt to try to prevent the education and banning of Asbestos in these countries that are economically important partners for the purchase of the Asbestos that these member countries are producing. The World Health Organization website states that all forms of Asbestos, including Chrysotile, are carcinogenic to humans. That's a well-known fact around the world. Unfortunately, when you look at countries like Indonesia and and things, the education isn't quite there. A lot of of people don't know, and actions like this prevent them from ever knowing. So it's really, really insidious and incredibly unfair for a company or a country or an organization to attempt to prevent citizens from knowing about things that could harm them, especially when the rest of the world knows. Exposure to Asbestos, including Chrysotile, causes cancer of the lung, larynx, and ovaries and mesothelioma. The World Health Organization estimates around 1600 people in Indonesia and more than 200,000 globally die every year from Asbestos related diseases. It says Asbestos is responsible for more than 70% of all deaths from work-related cancers. The Australian government's Asbestos and silica safety and eradication agency also declares Chrysotile as carcinogenic, saying it is clear that Chrysotile can cause mesothelioma as well as cancer of the lung, larynx, and ovaries, and is also associated with pharynx, throat, stomach, and colorectal cancer. The story then goes on to tell the stories of a couple of different individuals in Indonesia that unfortunately are suffering from Asbestos related diseases now. These people are people that worked in factories and manufactured goods with Asbestos materials that were never told, never knew that Asbestos was a hazard until they started to recognize health issues and problems like that. It's really, really sad when you hear about people in these situations where they're not provided with the appropriate safety equipment, they're not aware of the hazard, the education in the country isn't there, there aren't awareness campaigns, there aren't safety protocols, there aren't regulations that maintain or manage the import, the use, the manufacturer, the assembly, the installation of Asbestos products. So there's a lot of hazard out there that 1) people don't know about and 2) people aren't talking about. So I really, really appreciate the fact that ABC Australia is putting together a story like this because I really hope that more information is made available not just to people in Indonesia, which is very much an uphill fight at this point, but also around the world because the more we are aware of these sorts of issues and that we are aware of what's going on in some of these countries, the more we might be able to help as well. It's terrifying to think that things like this go on and that these hazards are withheld from people that are working in these industries to prop up the economies of countries that want to still continue to mine these materials, Siti Kristina, 59 first began coughing in 2009, almost two decades after she had begun working for an Asbestos textile factory in Cibinong in West Java. Every working day since she was 25, she would mix Asbestos fibers with cotton and polyester and spin them into Asbestos thread. That's one thing that a lot of people don't really realize. We have a presumption in countries that have regulated Asbestos, that there are safety precautions involved, that Asbestos is a rock or a mineral that we're mining and we're putting it into a another hard good, but that's not really necessarily true. Asbestos as a powder, when when it's being added to things, it's incredibly dangerous. It's woven into textiles. It's added to ropes. It's used in all sorts of different things that create very, very dangerous industries. No one had warned her of the dangers of handling Asbestos. At first Siti Christina thought nothing of the cough. Before long, she was losing weight and had a fever, and every few months she was back in the hospital. Only after a foreign medical team examined her. In 2012, did she learn, she had early stage Asbestosis. "When I did my checkup early this year", she said "I had to be hospitalized because my blood level dropped drastically and I was coughing so badly. Now I still cough and can't perform heavy duty activities." Here's another person. Tuniyah worked for 10 years at an Asbestos textile factory in Jakarta. In that period, she began coughing constantly. At first, she couldn't believe she had been diagnosed with Asbestosis. "I felt healthy and had no symptoms." She said, "my lungs are scarred. I constantly struggle to breathe." Now, 63, she can only do light domestic work. One of the really insidious parts of Asbestos diseases is that they don't develop right away. So you can be working in the Asbestos industry for 15, 20, maybe 30 years, and then can start having respiratory problems or develop an Asbestos related illness. So these are things that are really, really common that we all know about, and it's very, very unfortunate that people in these other countries don't. And it's very sad. Many more expected to die in the coming years. Unfortunately. Indonesia is the world's third biggest Asbestos importer after India and China. So you can see when you're looking at the economics of it; you can see why countries that are producing Asbestos would want to prevent Indonesia from banning or regulating Asbestos or starting education or safety programs to address those sorts of issues. And quite honestly, a lot of the imported Asbestos into Indonesia may be going into products that they then export. So you really don't know where Asbestos ends up. At the end of the day, Each year it brings in about 150,000 tons of Asbestos all of it Chrysotile, for use in construction. Around 13% of all Indonesian homes have roofs made from Chrysotile. In Jakarta the figure is much higher at 50%. When ABC visited areas in and around Jakarta in 2019, white Asbestos roofs were a common site, many of them cracked or broken. So I mean, you've got broken Asbestos, that's already going to be a potential hazard, and people are living in that. When it rains, all that rainwater could be picking up Asbestos fibers, making that contaminated. So now you've got Asbestos that's in the street when cars drive by or, you know, there's a lot of ancillary risks when you have Asbestos products like that that aren't being maintained or, you know, people aren't aware of those sorts of issues, so they can't even make sure that it's maintained. Discarded sheeting lay in backyards where children regularly played. Residents were seen drying clothes on low hanging Asbestos sheets. While official Indonesian health data in recent years records, no Asbestos related deaths and just six compensation claims. Union Aid Abroad, the ACTU's aid arm says the true toll is vastly under reported. And that's one of the big problems you have in countries like this. You can cite figures and the figures will look really good. You know, like that there aren't a lot of deaths attributed to Asbestos exposure. There aren't a lot of of health effects in industries that are working with Asbestos products or Asbestos materials. But at the end of the day, a lot of it comes down to education, awareness, the lack of development of safety and record keeping protocols, all things that really add up to bad data. So you really have to look at any data like that with a grain of salt. From those estimates, from the global burden of disease. More than 1000 people are dying already in Indonesia every year from Asbestos exposure. But as Indonesia's ramped up use in the last 20 years, then we don't expect that to peak for another couple of decades yet. So what they're talking about there is it can be 15, 20, 30 years before exposure to Asbestos leads to an Asbestos illness. So a lot of people that are working in these industries, they may develop illnesses in 15 years versus 30 depending on their exposure level and propensity and things, but it's not something that you're going to see reflected in the data and in these records in the next year or two. It's going to be something that is a long-term result. Profit over public health. The Fiber Cement Manufacturers Association is also personally suing three individual campaigners from the Indonesian Workers' Rights Group, the local initiative for the Occupational Safety and Health Network. It is demanding that the defendants apologize on national television and in newspapers for discrediting Chrysotile and that they declare that white Asbestos is not hazardous. These are scary demands, quite honestly. This is attempting to not just combat or prevent them from spreading awareness and education in Indonesia, but requiring that they actually spread false information and a false narrative. It also wants Indonesia's Ban Asbestos Network to delete references to Chrysotile on its website. Indonesia's Director of Public Policy, and one of the three individual defendants says the lawsuit could set a dangerous precedent. I a hundred percent agree. I completely agree with that. "People being critical in the future might worry about getting sued and being asked to pay a tremendous amount of money. We were sued for a fantastic illogical amount of money. I don't know how we can pay that." He says the case has affected him, both financially and emotionally "facing court could be seen as committing a crime. What we did was within our rights". He agrees that Chrysotile is a silent killer because symptoms typically only appear 15 to 30 years after exposure to the Asbestos fibers, which is true. Muhammad Darisman from Indonesia's Ban Asbestos Network agrees "the Fiber Cement Manufacturers Association wants legitimacy to keep their business running. Their goal is profit, not public health." He says, "Indonesia's health standards fall far behind". And quite honestly, that's a lot more common in a lot more countries than most people realize. The awareness isn't there. The countries have worked very hard to try to increase awareness and improve safety and health and develop those sorts of procedures and protocols, but they're not quite there yet, and they've received quite a lot of pushback over the years, both legally and economically, in some cases. So far, 73 countries and territories, including Australia, have banned all forms of Asbestos. The United States' ban is a little more more complex. I'll probably do a video about that in the future. We did institute a ban, backed off on some of those restrictions. You can still purchase some Asbestos products in the United States, but obviously they're not in high demand, so they're not easily found. They're more so used in commercial purposes. But Southeast Asia remains a major market for the world's major Asbestos producers. Union aid abroad with funding from the Australian government, and the United States, we fund them as well, has been campaigning for years to persuade countries, including Indonesia, Vietnam, and Laos, to join the global ban. "I think we're the only country in the world to have a standalone Asbestos Safety Eradication Agency." Mr. Hazelton said from Australia and I don't know of any other country that has an agency structured in such a way that it works to spread awareness, education, and encourage effective bans of Asbestos in other countries, so I find that very, very interesting. And one of their aims is also to try to lead in the area and the region in helping countries transition out of this deadly product into safer alternatives. So this is a really interesting story. It'll be interesting to see what comes of this over the next few years. How things develop and where they actually end up with these regulations and these requirements. I think quite honestly, we really do need to get away from Asbestos as a material. There's certain uses in industrial and the scientific industries and things where it does make sense. So I think some level of carve out does need to exist for those particular cases, But by and large, Asbestos doesn't need to be used in roofing. It doesn't need to be used in a wallboard or floor tile. These are all things that we've developed safer alternatives for. So it pains me to see people in countries like Indonesia where they don't know that these are hazards and they don't know what the rest of the world knows. And when you see that information being actively kept from them, it's really, really a sad development of things. And I really hope that the world can get behind these bans because there's really no need to use Asbestos. And even countries like Canada; Canada relied on Asbestos mining and production for years and years and years, and relatively recently, they actually shut down their last mine. So if Canada, being as involved in the Asbestos industry as they were, can look at that and recognize that they're introducing a hazard into the world that doesn't need to be there, that can stay underground and shut that down, I think there's hope for the rest of the world as well. So I think we really do need to put forth that effort and encourage the rest of the world to follow. It's sad when you see things like this, but I am hopeful that these issues are resolved and we can kind of move forward from that. But I hope that answers some questions that everybody might have with regards to these developments and what's going on in the Asbestos industry here. As always, if you have any questions at all about Asbestos, about what's going on in Indonesia or Australia or how that impacts the United States, what our Asbestos regulations and laws look like, you know what's going on there. Certainly feel free to leave a message in the comments. We check all of our comments, we try to respond to all of them, and we may take your questions and create a video in the future discussing in more detail a particular issue. So stay tuned and don't forget to like and subscribe to the channel so that you can be notified of future videos. It helps us a lot and it allows us to spread this information and get it out to more people, so we really appreciate everything and I hope everyone has a nice day! Stay tuned for some frequently asked questions, but while you're here, don't forget to like and subscribe. Where did Asbestos come from? While you may think that Asbestos is a manmade material, Asbestos, actually a group of six naturally occurring minerals. In fact, there is evidence of Asbestos used as far back as 4,500 years ago. Asbestos deposits have been discovered all over the world, and from these deposits, Asbestos was mined, processed, and ultimately used in various products from building materials to household goods. What building materials commonly contained Asbestos? It's important to keep in mind that Asbestos was used in thousands of building materials and products over the years, and was even mixed into things like plasters and stuccos at the whim of contractors of the time. So it is impossible to provide a definitive list of all building materials that may contain Asbestos. When in doubt, it is always recommended to have materials tested before disturbing them to determine if an Asbestos hazard exists. Here are a few of the most common building materials we see that contain Asbestos. Roofing. Asbestos was commonly used in roof shingles, rolled roofing and tar paper, as well as Asbestos products like corrugated Asbestos roofing. Vermiculite. While vermiculite itself is not intended as an Asbestos containing product, approximately 70% of vermiculite used in US home construction was sourced from a mine that was contaminated with Asbestos. As a result, vermiculite is generally treated as an Asbestos containing material due to the likelihood that Asbestos may be present. Pipe insulation. Asbestos was used in a variety of types of pipe insulation over the years, including aircell pipe insulation that looks like corrugated cardboard, mag pipe insulation that looks like a heavy styrofoam or plaster cast, and even knuckle compound used on pipe knuckles that looks like plaster or paper mache. Wallboard. While not as often discussed as some other Asbestos containing products, Asbestos was used in a variety of wallboard products over the years and it can still be found in homes today. This wallboard can look like drywall, plasterboard, or even cement board, and could be installed anywhere inside your home, including walls and ceilings, flooring and floor tile. Asbestos was used in many different flooring products over the years, including sheet flooring, vinyl tiles, in a variety of sizes, and even the glue used to install Asbestos flooring. Due to the sheer variety of flooring that contains Asbestos testing is necessary to determine if a hazard exists and an Asbestos tester will generally test both the flooring material and the glue beneath. While far from a comprehensive list, these are a few of the most common Asbestos containing materials that you may find in a home. As always, we recommend testing of any building materials that you may be unsure about or may potentially represent an Asbestos hazard. Thanks so much for watching. Don't forget to like and subscribe, and while you're here, check out our other great content.